I’m still not clear on what they are winning. I mean, is the title greatest lie teller in history? Biggest fallacy mankind has ever conceived? Most self-important group on the planet? Hmmm, ok maybe the last one could end up a tie on occasion.
Islam is the right religion and since cant win If you read the Quran with understanding you will find out that Islam is the right religion within 200 years Islam will expand
god, indeed! God IS Science. If you need a side of prophet with that, worship technology. If you need to follow that which can’t be proven, try scientific theory. My God is bigger than your God, My God’s bigger than yours……..,
I agree with previously. Religion was invented by the greedy to control their slaves. There is too many people on this earth. Religions are compounding the problem. Why would anyone truly care about this earth when they’ve been brainwashed into beleiving that a better life is at hand? Obviously, they don’t!
Religion explained the natural world using super natural entities. Then someone thought about finding out if these ideas were true. This is science – finding out if what you think is real. If not, then change what you think.
Personally, you will very rarely be able to actually change a religious follower. If they are ignorant, and only in the back of their head consider the conflicts of the world, they will find it hard to comprehend these in an argument. If they feel they are being disproved, they will revert to their fundamental truth of the world, their fortress of irrationallity in which no logic can touch them. And, worst of all, if they will believe they are right, if you attempt to carry out a discussion with them, they will become hypocritical, they won’t shut up and give you a chance to speak, they will interrupt you, and in the end, they will believe they have won because they are not convinced, or because someone tires of the discussion and breaks it up. Thus, any attempt at actually providing religious nutcases with real world proof is utterly useless, and any attempt to outsmart them in metaphysical sciences ends in improbability paradoxes. Any attempt to continue the discussion makes you look as stupid as them, so it is best simply not to engage in these discussions with religious people. Instead, wait thirty years until the world is mostly atheist, and see if they are more reasonable.
If evolution is backed by “real world proof” as Amal puts it then why are there no fossils of transitional creatures in our very extensive fossil record? Why is there no mechanism for adding DNA to propel us from one species to another? What of the problem of chirality (the spontaneous generation of first life)? Sir Arthur Keith, anatomist and anthropologist said, “Evolution is unproved and unprovable. We believe in it because the only alternative is special creation, and that is unthinkable”. Evolution is a theory that is impossible to confirm through scientific method. So for all of you evolutionists let me welcome you to the realm of religion for your belief takes more faith than mine.
First of all, awesome name, I wish my parents had named me that; I think my name translates into something like: “not bad military leader”. Anyways, normally I wouldn’t argue with you, but seeing as your argument is so flawed, I couldn’t help myself. First off, transitional fossils: I’m no paleontologist, or even a biologist, so forgive me if I am wrong, but can’t we easily trace the evolutionary tree of primates in the fossil record, following it down the line until we end up with humans? Second, the DNA propelling method: I’m not really a chemist either, but I know that such a mechanism is possible, however, it would be so extremely complicated, that us attempting to build it would be, one, impractical, and two, similar to expecting a newborn to program the next Halo game using only binary. Third, chirality: I know that organic compounds can be formed under in the environment of primordial earth, having myself performed a lab proving just that in AP biology. After organic compounds form, it would be a simple matter, if an extremely lengthy and time consuming one, before self-replicating RNA would end up inside a protective(ish) bi-lipid bubble. Next, the bubbles would begin to perform glycolysis, and evolution would shoot off, eventually resulting in life. I would like to know what kind of an anatomist/anthropologist your Sir Arthur Kieth is; evolution is easily provable as we can see natural selection within our own lifetime and with our own lives. If you want to think your belief requires less faith to believe in…more power to you. I think you have a point there, and I’d rather not get trapped in a silly discussion about it.
People are so damn stupid, JUST REALIZE WE ARE HUMAN not some fuck’ng spiritual sh*t soul. Watch this video if you have a retarded brain.. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Beware graphic content!!!!!!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRAh3Qse-Us
There is no one else that can be compared to my God, because he is true in everything he does for you. If you seek him, you shall find him and if you want to experience him, he will manifest himself in you. So what are you waiting for? Leave science alone because it will put you into deeper confusion yet the way to my everlasting God and recieving Jesus Christ as your personal saviour will lead to life and peace.
Realize this. Why haven’t you seen or heard of anything even close to as monumental or extraordinary as the stories in the bible? Why haven’t you seen any mass miracles, flooding of the earth, seas being split, arcs being built by one guy, one piece of bread and fish feeding the masses, fire and brim stone destroying one specifically bad town? I’ll tell you why. Those days are over! We are so connected globally with information at our finger tips that if anyone tried to make up some story about splitting the sea, or talking to a burning bush, they would be crucified (figure of speech) because they wouldn’t be able to prove it in front of a camera or a news reporter. A long long time ago, they didn’t have to worry about that.
I just got myself into a debate over religion today, with someone who would not listen to any sort of logic. She continuously tried to use the Bible as proof that Christianity is completely flawless. She did not comprehend that you cannot define something with itself. You cannot define a religion with it’s holy text. You cannot define a book by one of it’s composite sentences. You cannot define a word with itself. Is that so hard a concept to grasp?
Furthermore, she tried to tell me that everything written in the Bible is true. If that was a true statement, then why has the Bible been revised so many times? Not to mention, everyone who contributed to the Bible was biased. Therefore, the Bible cannot be used to prove anything.
I’m not saying that Christianity got EVERYTHING wrong. There was, in fact, a man named Jesus who lived in the ancient Middle East. No, I don’t know the exact times and places. Please don’t make me get out my textbook; it’s a college-level monster that weighs about ten pounds. And Jesus, like Muhammad in Islam, did go around trying to convert people to Christianity. His disciples claimed that he performed miracles, but the day a blind man learns to see again without a surgical procedure or the involvement of neuroplasticity, is the day I’ll ride my winged pig off into the sunset. And the day people rise from the dead is the day I buy a shotgun and a machete.
So, now we have a religion supposedly founded by an undead neurologist.
Compare that with science, with it’s wonderful, elegant logic. Then, get back to me. If you want my theory, the universe was created by the Big Bang, which was a part of an endless cycle of Big Bangs and Big Crunches. If you want more detailed information, there’s a wonderful tool out there called Google. Use it. Look up the Big Bang theory and the Multiverse theory. Then, if you can refute every single piece of scientific evidence about EVERYTHING, then I will concede. But you can’t, so I won’t.
This looks like a fun conversation and I find it quite interesting. But one question Amal.Why in the world did you even post a comment if in the end you were going to declare that you would “raher not get trapped in a silly discussion about it.”? Just a question, don’t loose your head. Plus from my point of view I like to call this kind of discussion a debate because everyone seems to be quite convinced that they are right and the other is wrong. Just a thought.Anyways… I would really appreciate it if you would mind citing some of your information because I know that sometimes people just like saying stuff for their own amusment or they just believe everything anyone tells them as long as it supports what they believe. (not saying you are but citing would help your “supporting evidence”. Since you said yourself that you are not a paleontologist, biologist or chemist) And forgive me for all of this criticism but I figured you were smart and not hard headed (as you accused religious believers to be). But I do not appreciate your overgeneralization about religious believers (or believer in god if you will). That overgeneralization is a very frequent fallacy. I must ask though, who where and who were you talking to? From my personal experience they seem completely rational (so long as you say that their holy book and spiritual things are off limits. Just stating that might help your experience with them.)
While I’m still having fun, I’ll start from the top since I don’t want Amal to feel left out.
Comment #3: for all you know they could be from the flood
Comment #5: build your vocabulary. Cussing turns people off and you end up sounding irrational and your argument poses no threat.
Comment #7: true, but which infinite are you talking about? Potential, actual or circular?
Comment #8: same with you. Build your vocabulary. Find a better word rather than “peepers”. I don’t appreciate being called a baby chicken. Plus, you have nothing to back up your claim.
Comment #9: where in the world did you come from? This debate is not on religion. If you are going to say something, make sure you don’t say something off the wall. After reading your post, I questioned your intelligence.
Comment #10: … You are even worse than Muhammed up there.(sorry that name was uncalled for but I thought some of us deserved a laugh.)
Comment #11: I have a question for you. Which side must provide proof? I personally think that the belief that rests upon evidence (empirical) should provide the proof.(I wrote an essay on that but I don’t want to bore you.)
Comment #12: Elaborate and make it relavent please?
Comment #14: First of all, check your grammar and spelling before you post. (not saying mine is perfect but your’s isn’t that great) And second are you saying that there is a god but he just doesn’t care? Third, how are religions compounding the problem?
Comment #15: What is up with everyone’s vocabulary? “Crap” is really another word for poop. I’m sorry but when you start building your argument with that, your argument falls flat in the educated mind. And you better hope there isn’t a hell.I wouldn’t be so cocky if I were you.
Comment #16: Did you really have to ask?
Comment #19: Your point?
Comment #20: This is also true with athiests, evolutionists and the like.
Comment #21: (At least the religious ones admit their belief must take at least a little bit of faith.)
Comment #22: You heard my rant.
So, all I did here was even out the fight because people were using unfair things to jab at the other.Now my question is… which side do you think I am on? Look forward to hearing your responses to my criticisms (I don’t expect you to be very happy with me but I hope that at least you will take my advice into consideration for your next post)
P.S. Hey Amal! At least your name compliments you. My name means “bitter”
… oh , i cant really imagine how those people reject GOD . well , of coarse in all sides , religion and science should not be compared to each other . all of us has our own beliefs .. BELIEVE IN GOD ,. GODBLESS )
The cosmos tell a much different story than religion. Our growing intelligence threatens the church, which is afraid to lose control of us. Science will eventually win.
Incredible. Science has proven the origins of life on this planet and are seeking out life elsewhere. Yet so many believe we all evolved from Adam and Eve.
People seem to forget that the Churches once were THE GOVERNMENT. Teachings of hell and damnation were means of keeping the people in line.
Noahs Ark. Santa Claus. Yeah. Enough said.
Gotta love the Islam. Islam is THE religion. Believe it or be killed. Nice.
Imagine what a world this would be if all would just throw away their nonsensical religious beliefs and work together for the benefit of mankind.
Majority of the population of this world arent even Christian, they are athiestic or follow some other belief. They have no concept of Jesus. Are they all wrong? Should they be blown up??
I was raised in a religious environment…I can say from my own experience that faith is a powerful thing. That being said, I am also an educated person, and faith alone cannot explain why or how we came to be here on this planet. Earth was created in 7 days? We’ve only been here a few thousand years? Sorry, Bible folks. For the people that actually want to understand, that’s not good enough.
not everything is infinite,,wen something has a beginning it will surely meet its end,,only god is infinite because it was never indicated in the bible that someone created him .
science and religion should go together. we cannot say that science wins over religion. science is merely an understanding of god’s creation it does not fight against it. i believe that there are many questions science cannot answer,the bible as well.. but we should always remember that the science focuses on scientific facts.while the bible seek to discuss spiritual teachings. science cannot answer everything cause if it does it will just simply imply that science can overpass god’s knowledge. god is still the most powerful!!
Neither of the two, science and religion can prove each other wrong. However neither of them are right because evolution is just a theory and no one knows if God is accually real!!!
I find it amusing how you speak of religious people being hypocritical and ignorant and yet you try and argue with a very valid point using the reasoning “your logic is so flawed I couldn’t help myself.” While I do very much dislike a believer who does not know how to mount an actual defense because of lack of knowledge so they revert to name calling, I also can’t stand a ‘know-it-all’ (ya thats what you sound like) atheist who can get away thinking they won a battle because they mentioned the words fossils, science, DNA, and theory. The fact is that while the theory of evolution looks good, it has just as many holes in it as religion does. Greg is completely right. Its like an anti-God religion, why else would people come out with things like “the atheist bible?”
“Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ.” The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand. “You’re a Christian, aren’t you, son?”
“Yes, sir.”
“So you believe in God?”
“Absolutely.”
“Is God good?”
“Sure! God’s good.”
“Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?”
“Yes.”
“Are you good or evil?”
“The Bible says I’m evil.”
The professor grins knowingly. “Ahh! THE BIBLE!” He considers for a moment. “Here’s one for you. Let’s say there’s a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help them? Would you try?”
“Yes sir, I would.”
“So you’re good…!”
“I wouldn’t say that.”
“Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you could… in fact most of us would if we could… God doesn’t.
[No answer.]
“He doesn’t, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?”
[No answer]
The elderly man is sympathetic. “No, you can’t, can you?” He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. In philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones. “Let’s start again, young fella.”
“Is God good?”
“Er… Yes.”
“Is Satan good?”
“No.”
“Where does Satan come from?” The student falters.
“From… God…”
“That’s right. God made Satan, didn’t he?” The elderly man runs his bony fingers through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking, student audience.”I think we’re going to have a lot of fun this semester, ladies and gentlemen.” He turns back to the Christian.
“Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?”
“Yes, sir.”
“Evil’s everywhere, isn’t it? Did God make everything?”
“Yes.”
“Who created evil?
[No answer]
“Is there sickness in this world? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness. All the terrible things – do they exist in this world? ”
The student squirms on his feet. “Yes.”
“Who created them? ”
[No answer] The professor suddenly shouts at his student. “WHO CREATED THEM? TELL ME, PLEASE!” The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the Christian’s face. In a still small voice: “God created all evil, didn’t He, son?”
[No answer]
The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and fails.
Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace the front of the classroom like an aging panther. The class is mesmerized. “Tell me,” he continues, “How is it that this God is good if He created all evil throughout all time?” The professor swishes his arms around to encompass the wickedness of the world. “All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all the torture, all the death and ugliness and all the suffering created by this good God is all over the world, isn’t it, young man?”
[No answer]
“Don’t you see it all over the place? Huh?”
Pause.
“Don’t you?” The professor leans into the student’s face again and whispers, “Is God good?”
[No answer]
“Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?”
The student’s voice betrays him and cracks. “Yes, professor. I do.”
The old man shakes his head sadly. “Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen him? ”
“No, sir. I’ve never seen Him.”
“Then tell us if you’ve ever heard your Jesus?”
“No, sir. I have not.”
“Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus…in fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God whatsoever?”
[No answer]
“Answer me, please.”
“No, sir, I’m afraid I haven’t.”
“You’re AFRAID… you haven’t?”
“No, sir.”
“Yet you still believe in him?”
“…yes…”
“That takes FAITH!” The professor smiles sagely at the underling.”According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son? Where is your God now?”
[The student doesn't answer]
“Sit down, please.”
The Christian sits…Defeated.
Another Christian raises his hand. “Professor, may I address the class?”
The professor turns and smiles. “Ah, another Christian in the vanguard! Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering.”
The Christian looks around the room. “Some interesting points you are making, sir. Now I’ve got a question for you. Is there such thing as heat?”
“Yes,” the professor replies. “There’s heat.”
“Is there such a thing as cold?”
“Yes, son, there’s cold too.”
“No, sir, there isn’t.”
The professor’s grin freezes. The room suddenly goes very cold.
The second Christian continues. “You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super- heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat but we don’t have anything called ‘cold’. We can hit 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than -458.
You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. “Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.”
Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom.
“Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?”
“That’s a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn’t darkness? What are you getting at…?”
“So you say there is such a thing as darkness?”
“Yes…”
“You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something, it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it’s called darkness, isn’t it? That’s the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, Darkness isn’t. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker and give me a jar of it. Can you…give me a jar of darker darkness, professor?”
Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before him. This will indeed be a good semester. “Would you mind telling us what your point is, young man?”
“Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with and so your conclusion must be in error….”
The professor goes toxic. “Flawed…? How dare you…!”"
“Sir, may I explain what I mean?”
The class is all ears.
“Explain… oh, explain…” The professor makes an admirable effort to regain control. Suddenly he is affability itself. He waves his hand to silence the class, for the student to continue.
“You are working on the premise of duality,” the Christian explains. “That for example there is life and then there’s death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science cannot even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism but has never seen, much less fully understood them. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, merely the absence of it.”
The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbor who has been reading it. “Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids this country hosts, professor. Is there such a thing as immorality?”
“Of course there is, now look…”
“Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality.
Is there such thing as injustice? No. Injustice is the absence of justice. Is there such a thing as evil?” The Christian pauses. “Isn’t evil the absence of good?”
The professor’s face has turned an alarming color. He is so angry he is temporarily speechless.
The Christian continues. “If there is evil in the world, professor, and we all agree there is, then God, if he exists, must be accomplishing a work through the agency of evil. What is that work, God is accomplishing? The Bible tells us it is to see if each one of us will, of our own free will, choose good over evil.”
The professor bridles. “As a philosophical scientist, I don’t view this matter as having anything to do with any choice; as a realist, I absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any other theological factor as being part of the world equation because God is not observable.”
“I would have thought that the absence of God’s moral code in this world is probably one of the most observable phenomena going,” the Christian replies.
“Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week! Tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?”
“If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.”
“Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?”
The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth and gives his student a silent, stony stare.
“Professor. Since no-one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a priest?”
“I’ll overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical discussion. Now, have you quite finished?” the professor hisses.
“So you don’t accept God’s moral code to do what is righteous?”
“I believe in what is – that’s science!”
“Ahh! SCIENCE!” the student’s face splits into a grin. “Sir, you rightly state that science is the study of observed phenomena. Science too is a premise which is flawed…”
“SCIENCE IS FLAWED?” the professor splutters.
The class is in uproar.
The Christian remains standing until the commotion has subsided. “To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, may I give you an example of what I mean?” The professor wisely keeps silent.
The Christian looks around the room. “Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor’s brain?” The class breaks out in laughter.
The Christian points towards his elderly, crumbling tutor. “Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor’s brain… felt the professor’s brain, touched or smelt the professor’s brain?” No one appears to have done so.
The Christian shakes his head sadly. “It appears no-one here has had any sensory perception of the professor’s brain whatsoever. Well, according to the rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science, I DECLARE that the professor has no brain.”
the are bothbdumb and should just be quite and forget about that because youre are making youre self look like a smart ass the t doeset know what they are talking aboput yuo bunch of ners pendejo piche estupidos FUCK SHCOOL
Religion is a primitive system..religion was only started when humans started asking questions and had no way to get answers. “why is the sky blue?” “god made it that way”. it wasnt until humans started advancing in the scientific fields that we found all the answers to questions people used to ask. evolution is the same thing, an early human would have no way to figure out how we got here, so they would say that a greater being put them here. evolution is completely provable through science, and there is no missing link. religion is for weaklings that need something other than self confidence. fear and faith are the same words. gtfo.
Although I strongly agree that all accepted religions do teach and urge a disbelief in science, but not all religions are against science… there are religions that are based on science, my own for example… many of the earliest followers in my religion created alchemy hundreds of years ago… a science only starting to be understood today (nuclear physicists have stated that lead (a periodic element) can be “transmuted” into gold… but the cost of the process would far outway the small amount of gold that would be produced…
flibit your story is ridcoules.believe me every atheist could answer the questions of your christian student without any problems.oh and the evolution is profed and everyone of you could check them if you want.like the platypus(duckbill) is the intermediate stage between reptile and the mammal.it lay eggs like an reptile,but it feeds his progeny with milk.I think i dont have to explain it further(like the implausibility of the origin of an incredible thing called god which can do everything what it wants but have no brain or something like that or the errors of the “holy books”).
But at he end i wisch you all a good night a good life and the niext time you try to convert someone to your religion you should yust SHOUT THE FUCK UP!.(Oh and Flibit the next time you should make a more plausibel story do you really think an proffesor of philosophy wouldnt be able to answer such easy question correctly(the professor called himself an atheist and usually an atheists know pretty much about science and these fun question about coldness and darkness and this stuff),but well it would wonder me if you made that story and didnt stold it from google or an fundamentalistic website
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March 21st, 2010 - 11:06 pm
Agreed
March 22nd, 2010 - 2:37 am
Prove it.
March 22nd, 2010 - 2:40 am
Fossils.
March 22nd, 2010 - 4:45 am
Creationism > Science
March 22nd, 2010 - 4:50 am
Unfair fight. You cant have shit tier vs. god tier its not balanced, lrn2tournament rules fgt.
March 28th, 2010 - 2:54 am
I’m still not clear on what they are winning. I mean, is the title greatest lie teller in history? Biggest fallacy mankind has ever conceived? Most self-important group on the planet? Hmmm, ok maybe the last one could end up a tie on occasion.
May 19th, 2010 - 8:46 pm
there is no proof either way. one cannot state fact when talking about philosophy. everything is abstract, everything is infinite.
May 19th, 2010 - 8:48 pm
p.s. evolution just backs up the idea of god.
open ur peepers
May 21st, 2010 - 1:16 am
Islam is the right religion and since cant win If you read the Quran with understanding you will find out that Islam is the right religion within 200 years Islam will expand
May 25th, 2010 - 2:34 pm
im am god there for i win
May 25th, 2010 - 2:35 pm
they both loose neither one can out prove the other
June 14th, 2010 - 6:53 pm
god, indeed! God IS Science. If you need a side of prophet with that, worship technology. If you need to follow that which can’t be proven, try scientific theory. My God is bigger than your God, My God’s bigger than yours……..,
June 14th, 2010 - 6:55 pm
Perception is derived from focus.
June 14th, 2010 - 9:38 pm
I agree with previously. Religion was invented by the greedy to control their slaves. There is too many people on this earth. Religions are compounding the problem. Why would anyone truly care about this earth when they’ve been brainwashed into beleiving that a better life is at hand? Obviously, they don’t!
June 14th, 2010 - 10:18 pm
I do so agree! However, rest assured, if all this heaven and hell crap plays out as truth, I will be the one to make satan wash the feet of Jesus.
June 15th, 2010 - 8:23 pm
Did I stumble into a den of athee aythi azei…….,non-believers?
June 15th, 2010 - 8:29 pm
Based on most of the responses to my site so far, you might have.
June 28th, 2010 - 10:38 am
This
July 14th, 2010 - 4:11 am
Religion explained the natural world using super natural entities. Then someone thought about finding out if these ideas were true. This is science – finding out if what you think is real. If not, then change what you think.
July 20th, 2010 - 9:51 am
Personally, you will very rarely be able to actually change a religious follower. If they are ignorant, and only in the back of their head consider the conflicts of the world, they will find it hard to comprehend these in an argument. If they feel they are being disproved, they will revert to their fundamental truth of the world, their fortress of irrationallity in which no logic can touch them. And, worst of all, if they will believe they are right, if you attempt to carry out a discussion with them, they will become hypocritical, they won’t shut up and give you a chance to speak, they will interrupt you, and in the end, they will believe they have won because they are not convinced, or because someone tires of the discussion and breaks it up. Thus, any attempt at actually providing religious nutcases with real world proof is utterly useless, and any attempt to outsmart them in metaphysical sciences ends in improbability paradoxes. Any attempt to continue the discussion makes you look as stupid as them, so it is best simply not to engage in these discussions with religious people. Instead, wait thirty years until the world is mostly atheist, and see if they are more reasonable.
July 21st, 2010 - 5:41 pm
If evolution is backed by “real world proof” as Amal puts it then why are there no fossils of transitional creatures in our very extensive fossil record? Why is there no mechanism for adding DNA to propel us from one species to another? What of the problem of chirality (the spontaneous generation of first life)? Sir Arthur Keith, anatomist and anthropologist said, “Evolution is unproved and unprovable. We believe in it because the only alternative is special creation, and that is unthinkable”. Evolution is a theory that is impossible to confirm through scientific method. So for all of you evolutionists let me welcome you to the realm of religion for your belief takes more faith than mine.
August 17th, 2010 - 6:22 am
In response to Greg McClellan:
First of all, awesome name, I wish my parents had named me that; I think my name translates into something like: “not bad military leader”. Anyways, normally I wouldn’t argue with you, but seeing as your argument is so flawed, I couldn’t help myself. First off, transitional fossils: I’m no paleontologist, or even a biologist, so forgive me if I am wrong, but can’t we easily trace the evolutionary tree of primates in the fossil record, following it down the line until we end up with humans? Second, the DNA propelling method: I’m not really a chemist either, but I know that such a mechanism is possible, however, it would be so extremely complicated, that us attempting to build it would be, one, impractical, and two, similar to expecting a newborn to program the next Halo game using only binary. Third, chirality: I know that organic compounds can be formed under in the environment of primordial earth, having myself performed a lab proving just that in AP biology. After organic compounds form, it would be a simple matter, if an extremely lengthy and time consuming one, before self-replicating RNA would end up inside a protective(ish) bi-lipid bubble. Next, the bubbles would begin to perform glycolysis, and evolution would shoot off, eventually resulting in life. I would like to know what kind of an anatomist/anthropologist your Sir Arthur Kieth is; evolution is easily provable as we can see natural selection within our own lifetime and with our own lives. If you want to think your belief requires less faith to believe in…more power to you. I think you have a point there, and I’d rather not get trapped in a silly discussion about it.
September 27th, 2010 - 8:16 pm
” WE ARE ANIMALS WITH BETTER EQUIPMENT”
People are so damn stupid, JUST REALIZE WE ARE HUMAN not some fuck’ng spiritual sh*t soul. Watch this video if you have a retarded brain.. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Beware graphic content!!!!!!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRAh3Qse-Us
October 7th, 2010 - 6:13 am
There is no one else that can be compared to my God, because he is true in everything he does for you. If you seek him, you shall find him and if you want to experience him, he will manifest himself in you. So what are you waiting for? Leave science alone because it will put you into deeper confusion yet the way to my everlasting God and recieving Jesus Christ as your personal saviour will lead to life and peace.
October 13th, 2010 - 12:37 am
Realize this. Why haven’t you seen or heard of anything even close to as monumental or extraordinary as the stories in the bible? Why haven’t you seen any mass miracles, flooding of the earth, seas being split, arcs being built by one guy, one piece of bread and fish feeding the masses, fire and brim stone destroying one specifically bad town? I’ll tell you why. Those days are over! We are so connected globally with information at our finger tips that if anyone tried to make up some story about splitting the sea, or talking to a burning bush, they would be crucified (figure of speech) because they wouldn’t be able to prove it in front of a camera or a news reporter. A long long time ago, they didn’t have to worry about that.
October 15th, 2010 - 1:49 am
I just got myself into a debate over religion today, with someone who would not listen to any sort of logic. She continuously tried to use the Bible as proof that Christianity is completely flawless. She did not comprehend that you cannot define something with itself. You cannot define a religion with it’s holy text. You cannot define a book by one of it’s composite sentences. You cannot define a word with itself. Is that so hard a concept to grasp?
Furthermore, she tried to tell me that everything written in the Bible is true. If that was a true statement, then why has the Bible been revised so many times? Not to mention, everyone who contributed to the Bible was biased. Therefore, the Bible cannot be used to prove anything.
I’m not saying that Christianity got EVERYTHING wrong. There was, in fact, a man named Jesus who lived in the ancient Middle East. No, I don’t know the exact times and places. Please don’t make me get out my textbook; it’s a college-level monster that weighs about ten pounds. And Jesus, like Muhammad in Islam, did go around trying to convert people to Christianity. His disciples claimed that he performed miracles, but the day a blind man learns to see again without a surgical procedure or the involvement of neuroplasticity, is the day I’ll ride my winged pig off into the sunset. And the day people rise from the dead is the day I buy a shotgun and a machete.
So, now we have a religion supposedly founded by an undead neurologist.
Compare that with science, with it’s wonderful, elegant logic. Then, get back to me. If you want my theory, the universe was created by the Big Bang, which was a part of an endless cycle of Big Bangs and Big Crunches. If you want more detailed information, there’s a wonderful tool out there called Google. Use it. Look up the Big Bang theory and the Multiverse theory. Then, if you can refute every single piece of scientific evidence about EVERYTHING, then I will concede. But you can’t, so I won’t.
October 15th, 2010 - 1:54 am
Please forgive my enthusiasm in the use of apostrophes, and I forgot to end my post as I usually do.
Sententiarum Terminus
October 29th, 2010 - 1:29 am
This looks like a fun conversation and I find it quite interesting. But one question Amal.Why in the world did you even post a comment if in the end you were going to declare that you would “raher not get trapped in a silly discussion about it.”? Just a question, don’t loose your head. Plus from my point of view I like to call this kind of discussion a debate because everyone seems to be quite convinced that they are right and the other is wrong. Just a thought.Anyways… I would really appreciate it if you would mind citing some of your information because I know that sometimes people just like saying stuff for their own amusment or they just believe everything anyone tells them as long as it supports what they believe. (not saying you are but citing would help your “supporting evidence”. Since you said yourself that you are not a paleontologist, biologist or chemist) And forgive me for all of this criticism but I figured you were smart and not hard headed (as you accused religious believers to be). But I do not appreciate your overgeneralization about religious believers (or believer in god if you will). That overgeneralization is a very frequent fallacy. I must ask though, who where and who were you talking to? From my personal experience they seem completely rational (so long as you say that their holy book and spiritual things are off limits. Just stating that might help your experience with them.)
While I’m still having fun, I’ll start from the top since I don’t want Amal to feel left out.
Comment #3: for all you know they could be from the flood
Comment #5: build your vocabulary. Cussing turns people off and you end up sounding irrational and your argument poses no threat.
Comment #7: true, but which infinite are you talking about? Potential, actual or circular?
Comment #8: same with you. Build your vocabulary. Find a better word rather than “peepers”. I don’t appreciate being called a baby chicken. Plus, you have nothing to back up your claim.
Comment #9: where in the world did you come from? This debate is not on religion. If you are going to say something, make sure you don’t say something off the wall. After reading your post, I questioned your intelligence.
Comment #10: … You are even worse than Muhammed up there.(sorry that name was uncalled for but I thought some of us deserved a laugh.)
Comment #11: I have a question for you. Which side must provide proof? I personally think that the belief that rests upon evidence (empirical) should provide the proof.(I wrote an essay on that but I don’t want to bore you.)
Comment #12: Elaborate and make it relavent please?
Comment #14: First of all, check your grammar and spelling before you post. (not saying mine is perfect but your’s isn’t that great) And second are you saying that there is a god but he just doesn’t care? Third, how are religions compounding the problem?
Comment #15: What is up with everyone’s vocabulary? “Crap” is really another word for poop. I’m sorry but when you start building your argument with that, your argument falls flat in the educated mind. And you better hope there isn’t a hell.I wouldn’t be so cocky if I were you.
Comment #16: Did you really have to ask?
Comment #19: Your point?
Comment #20: This is also true with athiests, evolutionists and the like.
Comment #21: (At least the religious ones admit their belief must take at least a little bit of faith.)
Comment #22: You heard my rant.
So, all I did here was even out the fight because people were using unfair things to jab at the other.Now my question is… which side do you think I am on? Look forward to hearing your responses to my criticisms (I don’t expect you to be very happy with me but I hope that at least you will take my advice into consideration for your next post)
P.S. Hey Amal! At least your name compliments you. My name means “bitter”
November 10th, 2010 - 10:58 am
… oh , i cant really imagine how those people reject GOD . well , of coarse in all sides , religion and science should not be compared to each other . all of us has our own beliefs .. BELIEVE IN GOD ,. GODBLESS
)
November 11th, 2010 - 8:02 pm
The cosmos tell a much different story than religion. Our growing intelligence threatens the church, which is afraid to lose control of us. Science will eventually win.
November 17th, 2010 - 8:11 pm
HaHa Ha!
Incredible. Science has proven the origins of life on this planet and are seeking out life elsewhere. Yet so many believe we all evolved from Adam and Eve.
People seem to forget that the Churches once were THE GOVERNMENT. Teachings of hell and damnation were means of keeping the people in line.
Noahs Ark. Santa Claus. Yeah. Enough said.
Gotta love the Islam. Islam is THE religion. Believe it or be killed. Nice.
Imagine what a world this would be if all would just throw away their nonsensical religious beliefs and work together for the benefit of mankind.
Majority of the population of this world arent even Christian, they are athiestic or follow some other belief. They have no concept of Jesus. Are they all wrong? Should they be blown up??
Religious people are going to kill us all.
Science and reason people.
November 22nd, 2010 - 6:27 am
I was raised in a religious environment…I can say from my own experience that faith is a powerful thing. That being said, I am also an educated person, and faith alone cannot explain why or how we came to be here on this planet. Earth was created in 7 days? We’ve only been here a few thousand years? Sorry, Bible folks. For the people that actually want to understand, that’s not good enough.
December 6th, 2010 - 12:52 pm
not everything is infinite,,wen something has a beginning it will surely meet its end,,only god is infinite because it was never indicated in the bible that someone created him .
science and religion should go together. we cannot say that science wins over religion. science is merely an understanding of god’s creation it does not fight against it. i believe that there are many questions science cannot answer,the bible as well.. but we should always remember that the science focuses on scientific facts.while the bible seek to discuss spiritual teachings. science cannot answer everything cause if it does it will just simply imply that science can overpass god’s knowledge. god is still the most powerful!!
January 12th, 2011 - 7:06 pm
Neither of the two, science and religion can prove each other wrong. However neither of them are right because evolution is just a theory and no one knows if God is accually real!!!
February 11th, 2011 - 3:43 am
I find it amusing how you speak of religious people being hypocritical and ignorant and yet you try and argue with a very valid point using the reasoning “your logic is so flawed I couldn’t help myself.” While I do very much dislike a believer who does not know how to mount an actual defense because of lack of knowledge so they revert to name calling, I also can’t stand a ‘know-it-all’ (ya thats what you sound like) atheist who can get away thinking they won a battle because they mentioned the words fossils, science, DNA, and theory. The fact is that while the theory of evolution looks good, it has just as many holes in it as religion does. Greg is completely right. Its like an anti-God religion, why else would people come out with things like “the atheist bible?”
February 25th, 2011 - 6:15 pm
religionit is actually more like fidelism..
March 16th, 2011 - 7:56 am
Religion and science meet in the observer……see my book
Einstein’s Timeless Universe
yours nirvi
March 20th, 2011 - 3:10 pm
Religion vs Science
“Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ.” The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand. “You’re a Christian, aren’t you, son?”
“Yes, sir.”
“So you believe in God?”
“Absolutely.”
“Is God good?”
“Sure! God’s good.”
“Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?”
“Yes.”
“Are you good or evil?”
“The Bible says I’m evil.”
The professor grins knowingly. “Ahh! THE BIBLE!” He considers for a moment. “Here’s one for you. Let’s say there’s a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help them? Would you try?”
“Yes sir, I would.”
“So you’re good…!”
“I wouldn’t say that.”
“Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you could… in fact most of us would if we could… God doesn’t.
[No answer.]
“He doesn’t, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?”
[No answer]
The elderly man is sympathetic. “No, you can’t, can you?” He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. In philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones. “Let’s start again, young fella.”
“Is God good?”
“Er… Yes.”
“Is Satan good?”
“No.”
“Where does Satan come from?” The student falters.
“From… God…”
“That’s right. God made Satan, didn’t he?” The elderly man runs his bony fingers through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking, student audience.”I think we’re going to have a lot of fun this semester, ladies and gentlemen.” He turns back to the Christian.
“Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?”
“Yes, sir.”
“Evil’s everywhere, isn’t it? Did God make everything?”
“Yes.”
“Who created evil?
[No answer]
“Is there sickness in this world? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness. All the terrible things – do they exist in this world? ”
The student squirms on his feet. “Yes.”
“Who created them? ”
[No answer] The professor suddenly shouts at his student. “WHO CREATED THEM? TELL ME, PLEASE!” The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the Christian’s face. In a still small voice: “God created all evil, didn’t He, son?”
[No answer]
The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and fails.
Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace the front of the classroom like an aging panther. The class is mesmerized. “Tell me,” he continues, “How is it that this God is good if He created all evil throughout all time?” The professor swishes his arms around to encompass the wickedness of the world. “All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all the torture, all the death and ugliness and all the suffering created by this good God is all over the world, isn’t it, young man?”
[No answer]
“Don’t you see it all over the place? Huh?”
Pause.
“Don’t you?” The professor leans into the student’s face again and whispers, “Is God good?”
[No answer]
“Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?”
The student’s voice betrays him and cracks. “Yes, professor. I do.”
The old man shakes his head sadly. “Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen him? ”
“No, sir. I’ve never seen Him.”
“Then tell us if you’ve ever heard your Jesus?”
“No, sir. I have not.”
“Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus…in fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God whatsoever?”
[No answer]
“Answer me, please.”
“No, sir, I’m afraid I haven’t.”
“You’re AFRAID… you haven’t?”
“No, sir.”
“Yet you still believe in him?”
“…yes…”
“That takes FAITH!” The professor smiles sagely at the underling.”According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son? Where is your God now?”
[The student doesn't answer]
“Sit down, please.”
The Christian sits…Defeated.
Another Christian raises his hand. “Professor, may I address the class?”
The professor turns and smiles. “Ah, another Christian in the vanguard! Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering.”
The Christian looks around the room. “Some interesting points you are making, sir. Now I’ve got a question for you. Is there such thing as heat?”
“Yes,” the professor replies. “There’s heat.”
“Is there such a thing as cold?”
“Yes, son, there’s cold too.”
“No, sir, there isn’t.”
The professor’s grin freezes. The room suddenly goes very cold.
The second Christian continues. “You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super- heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat but we don’t have anything called ‘cold’. We can hit 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than -458.
You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. “Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.”
Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom.
“Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?”
“That’s a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn’t darkness? What are you getting at…?”
“So you say there is such a thing as darkness?”
“Yes…”
“You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something, it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it’s called darkness, isn’t it? That’s the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, Darkness isn’t. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker and give me a jar of it. Can you…give me a jar of darker darkness, professor?”
Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before him. This will indeed be a good semester. “Would you mind telling us what your point is, young man?”
“Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with and so your conclusion must be in error….”
The professor goes toxic. “Flawed…? How dare you…!”"
“Sir, may I explain what I mean?”
The class is all ears.
“Explain… oh, explain…” The professor makes an admirable effort to regain control. Suddenly he is affability itself. He waves his hand to silence the class, for the student to continue.
“You are working on the premise of duality,” the Christian explains. “That for example there is life and then there’s death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science cannot even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism but has never seen, much less fully understood them. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, merely the absence of it.”
The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbor who has been reading it. “Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids this country hosts, professor. Is there such a thing as immorality?”
“Of course there is, now look…”
“Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality.
Is there such thing as injustice? No. Injustice is the absence of justice. Is there such a thing as evil?” The Christian pauses. “Isn’t evil the absence of good?”
The professor’s face has turned an alarming color. He is so angry he is temporarily speechless.
The Christian continues. “If there is evil in the world, professor, and we all agree there is, then God, if he exists, must be accomplishing a work through the agency of evil. What is that work, God is accomplishing? The Bible tells us it is to see if each one of us will, of our own free will, choose good over evil.”
The professor bridles. “As a philosophical scientist, I don’t view this matter as having anything to do with any choice; as a realist, I absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any other theological factor as being part of the world equation because God is not observable.”
“I would have thought that the absence of God’s moral code in this world is probably one of the most observable phenomena going,” the Christian replies.
“Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week! Tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?”
“If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.”
“Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?”
The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth and gives his student a silent, stony stare.
“Professor. Since no-one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a priest?”
“I’ll overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical discussion. Now, have you quite finished?” the professor hisses.
“So you don’t accept God’s moral code to do what is righteous?”
“I believe in what is – that’s science!”
“Ahh! SCIENCE!” the student’s face splits into a grin. “Sir, you rightly state that science is the study of observed phenomena. Science too is a premise which is flawed…”
“SCIENCE IS FLAWED?” the professor splutters.
The class is in uproar.
The Christian remains standing until the commotion has subsided. “To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, may I give you an example of what I mean?” The professor wisely keeps silent.
The Christian looks around the room. “Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor’s brain?” The class breaks out in laughter.
The Christian points towards his elderly, crumbling tutor. “Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor’s brain… felt the professor’s brain, touched or smelt the professor’s brain?” No one appears to have done so.
The Christian shakes his head sadly. “It appears no-one here has had any sensory perception of the professor’s brain whatsoever. Well, according to the rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science, I DECLARE that the professor has no brain.”
The class is in chaos.
The Christian sits down.
April 19th, 2011 - 11:45 pm
the are bothbdumb and should just be quite and forget about that because youre are making youre self look like a smart ass the t doeset know what they are talking aboput yuo bunch of ners pendejo piche estupidos FUCK SHCOOL
May 5th, 2011 - 10:07 pm
Religion is a primitive system..religion was only started when humans started asking questions and had no way to get answers. “why is the sky blue?” “god made it that way”. it wasnt until humans started advancing in the scientific fields that we found all the answers to questions people used to ask. evolution is the same thing, an early human would have no way to figure out how we got here, so they would say that a greater being put them here. evolution is completely provable through science, and there is no missing link. religion is for weaklings that need something other than self confidence. fear and faith are the same words. gtfo.
June 3rd, 2011 - 8:26 pm
Although I strongly agree that all accepted religions do teach and urge a disbelief in science, but not all religions are against science… there are religions that are based on science, my own for example… many of the earliest followers in my religion created alchemy hundreds of years ago… a science only starting to be understood today (nuclear physicists have stated that lead (a periodic element) can be “transmuted” into gold… but the cost of the process would far outway the small amount of gold that would be produced…
June 14th, 2011 - 9:07 pm
flibit your story is ridcoules.believe me every atheist could answer the questions of your christian student without any problems.oh and the evolution is profed and everyone of you could check them if you want.like the platypus(duckbill) is the intermediate stage between reptile and the mammal.it lay eggs like an reptile,but it feeds his progeny with milk.I think i dont have to explain it further(like the implausibility of the origin of an incredible thing called god which can do everything what it wants but have no brain or something like that or the errors of the “holy books”).
But at he end i wisch you all a good night a good life and the niext time you try to convert someone to your religion you should yust SHOUT THE FUCK UP!.(Oh and Flibit the next time you should make a more plausibel story do you really think an proffesor of philosophy wouldnt be able to answer such easy question correctly(the professor called himself an atheist and usually an atheists know pretty much about science and these fun question about coldness and darkness and this stuff),but well it would wonder me if you made that story and didnt stold it from google or an fundamentalistic website
August 30th, 2011 - 12:51 pm
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September 23rd, 2011 - 11:12 pm
You people are all ignorant wastes of meat. True knowledge is knowing that you know nothing.
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